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Harley-Davidson Pan America 1250 Special vs BMW R1250GSA/KTM1290SAR | Comparison with CLEAR Winner!
Nov 15, 2022
We compare the specs of the new Harley-Davidson Pan America 1250 Special with the BMW R1250 GS Adventure and the new 2021 KTM Super Adventure R. The result is conclusive... Sort of...
Found out more on the HD Pan America 1250 here: https://h-dmediakit.com/us/pan-america.html
Check out https://adventurebiketroop.com/
#Harley-Davidson #PanAmerica1250 #HD1250Special
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0:00
Harley-Davidson finally launched their first adventure bike, the Pan-America 1250 and 1250 Special
0:06
In order to see the bike in perspective, we're going to compare it to the BMW R1250 GS Adventure
0:12
and the brand new KTM 1290 Super Adventure Arm. And we're going to pick a clear winner
0:23
Now instead of just talking about the Harley-Davidson Pan-America 1250 Special, we're gonna compare it to the benchmark the BMW R1250 GS Adventure and since KTM also
0:37
recently unveiled the 2021 Super Adventure R, 1290 Super Adventure R, we're gonna throw that into the mix as well
0:44
Now yes, if you are buying a bike or picking a bike or picking a winner, you have to sit on the bike, you have to ride the bikes
0:50
The specs only tell half the story, but it is where most people start. So that's what we're gonna do
0:55
when comparing bikes there's nothing worse than an inconclusive result so I
1:01
devised a plan to pick a very clear winner so the rules are as follows we're
1:06
going to compare the specs of these three bikes every time one bike wins or
1:10
whoever is the winner for each specification like for instance the power that bike gets a point and will rank the bikes according to the points
1:18
and then there's a bonus round we're going to compare unique features so
1:24
whenever there's a bike that has a feature that the others don't have, then
1:27
that bike gets another point. And if there's two bikes with a specific feature
1:32
and the third one doesn't have it, both bikes get the point. And then if all three
1:37
bikes has the feature, like for instance the action control, none of them gets the points
1:40
So at the end we'll get a very clear winner. Now I honestly didn't know which
1:45
one is going to win, which is kind of fun for a geek like me. So please pause the
1:50
video and comment below which one you think is going to have the most points at the end when we look at the specs and the unique features
1:57
And then also, if there's any other points that you feel I've awarded unfairly to a specific bike
2:02
or if you think I left out some of the features, or I've had to add something
2:07
please comment below and let's see who ends up at the top
2:12
Now is this a fair comparison? No. Do I think GS Riders will buy the Panamerica
2:18
if it pops up at the top? Definitely not. What do I think about the new Panamerica? Well, I like any bikes, I love any adventure bike
2:28
If they bring us a new adventure bike that we can ride one day, that's fine by me. I'm not going to complain
2:34
Will I buy one? No. I'm a cheapskate, that's why I ride the XR
2:40
So we start off with the price. It's very difficult to find like-for-like comparisons
2:46
because there's optional extras and different markets have different specification levels. We're picking the US models, the base models, but I took the Pan America 1250 Special
2:58
That's the top of the range one Without any optional extras compared to the BMW GS Adventure and then the KTM Super Adventure R
3:08
So the Pan America is 19,999 The BMW is 20,345 and then the KTM is 18,599
3:19
So the KTM is a clear winner and a point for the KTM there. Now I have to mention the 2021 model KTM, the purple one, has been launched or unveiled
3:28
but they haven't given us the US price yet. So we're going to give it to the KTM now, but just know that the price could possibly change slightly
3:39
Now I have to mention that the colors that you always see, the BMW shows that rally colors
3:44
that's an extra $775 and the Pan America with that orange and pull white is an extra $350
3:51
So these are, this is the black Harley-Davidson Pan America Special and the ice grey GS
3:59
So not the ones you always see in all the fancy footage. So the next thing we're looking at is torque
4:06
and this determines how much the bike can carry, the power output and the driveability both
4:13
off-road and acceleration etc. So they all have similar sized engines the KTM is
4:19
slightly bigger with 50cc bigger. The torque for the Harley-Davidson is 128
4:24
Newton meters. The KTM is 138 Newton meters. The BMW winning this one at 143
4:30
Newton meters. And even more important is where the torque is delivered. The BMW is
4:36
the lowest RPM 6,250 which is lower than both the KTM and the Harley-Davidson. So
4:41
clear wind to the BMW's mighty torquey engine. So next we look at power output
4:48
Everyone wants to know the power. Power is a function of torque and engine speed
4:53
Now we know the BMW has the most poor torque but the other two rev higher. So
4:58
let's have a look. Those V-Twins rev higher than this Boxer engine. So Harley
5:02
Davidson delivers 112 kilowatts and that's at 8750 rpm. BMW is 102 so 10
5:10
kilowatt less but at a thousand rpm lower so because the Harley race higher more power and the KTM a massive 118 118 kilowatts at 9000 RPM So you can see the engine speed plays a big role in the power
5:26
And Harley even quotes the top speed, I think it was 250 or 200 and something kilometers per hour
5:32
I can't remember, I'll put it on the screen then. So, yeah, higher revving mode today
5:36
So that's another point to KTM, who is now at 2 to 1 for BMW and 0 for Harley Davidson
5:43
Very important for adventure bikes, they're all getting super heavy, so weight is a big consideration
5:48
And this is really where the Harley-Davidson surprised us. It's always difficult to compare weight because we've got wet weight and then dry weight for some bikes
5:57
And I couldn't get wet weight for all three or dry weight for all three, but we have a clear winner
6:02
Let's start with Harley-Davidson. It's a wet weight of 254 kilograms versus BMW's 269
6:09
BMW is one of the heaviest bikes out there. So the Harley is in front of the BMW
6:13
We all know KTM is the lighter one. So there I had to compare the dry weight of the Harley 239
6:19
with the dry weight of the KTM 221 kilograms. So a clear winner the KTM
6:24
We knew that's going to happen. That's three points for KTM, one for BMW, zero for Harley-Davidson
6:30
The way that Harley-Davidson kept the weight light is a whole range of features
6:35
The first thing is the engine is the main stressed member of the bike
6:40
So the rest of the frame is bolted around the engine to keep the weight down and
6:45
The materials they used for instance aluminum cylinders, etc. They also kept the weight way down
6:52
But I'm not an engineer so you can go and check the specs I've got links to all the specification sites below if you want to go and read upon it
6:59
But anyways, won't forget you For adventure touring, tank size is important and on these awesome looking bikes no one's gonna fit a big plastic tank
7:07
So it's important that it comes out with a big tank and that's where the adventure shines
7:12
But let's start with Harley-Davidson, 21 liters for the 1250 Special KTM is 23 liters, slightly bigger, but then BMW, that adventure module, model 30 liters
7:24
So that's almost 50% more than the Harley-Davidson, so very clear wind there, 2.4 BMW
7:30
34 ktm. And then on the fuel consumption, they all have quoted figures. I'll just
7:36
quickly mention that it's 5.5 liters per hundred kilometers for the Harley-Davidson, 5.7 for ktm and then 4.75 liters per hundred kilometers for the
7:47
BMW. Now these are all manufactured, estimated or quoted figures so it either
7:52
means that the BMW is their most economical and will go by far the
7:56
furthest with that big tank or they're just lying more than others
8:00
Okay so seat height, another important factor with a heavy bike and a lot of
8:05
riders are shorter than six feet and to keep a bike like this stable or upright
8:12
is a challenge for a lot of riders. So the BMW is the standard seat height is
8:19
890 millimeters, there are lower seat options, then the KTM is 880 millimeters
8:26
slightly lower but the Harley-Davidson here they've had the very low figure I
8:30
can't remember in millimeters but it's 31.1 inches that's way shorter than the
8:34
others but that's laden weight so with all the weight on the bike but I did
8:39
find somewhere the unladen weight that was 848 millimeters so it's slightly
8:43
lower than the other two so that's a win for Harley-Davidson the first point so
8:48
we're on three for KTM two for BMW one for Harley-Davidson and while we're
8:54
chatting about seat height Harley-Davidson has an optional ride height or adaptive
9:00
ride height control system and this is optional extra I think it's a thousand
9:04
dollars so it's not part of the standard feature so it won't earn a point in the
9:08
features later so we chat about it now but this is basically a system where you
9:12
can control the ride height so there's three options there's automatic so when
9:16
you pull it into a stop it detects it and it lowers the ride height so you can put
9:20
feet flat on the ground and this can change the ride height by between one and two inches so 25 to
9:26
50 millimeters so it can go quite low and then when you start riding it goes up to your normal
9:33
ride height then there's also a delayed one where it will stay low for a bit and then as you speed
9:39
up it will increase and this you can have a short or a long delay and then the final one is a lock
9:43
where you can lock the ride height so it stays at the same height so it does this doesn't affect
9:50
ground clearance at all. Now this is a nice feature. My only worry is and those
9:56
who know or have owned a Discovery, Land Rover Discovery or Range Rover who've seen this
10:01
If a system like this fails then you have to limp home or you won't be able
10:07
to ride the bike. So yeah I wouldn't put that on a bike if I had to ride very far
10:14
from home or go on a very long trip where dirt and moisture can get in. But
10:18
anyways it is a neat feature especially for people who's going to commute on the bike and if you are a little bit shorter. The next specification we're looking at
10:27
is ground clearance and this was difficult to find BMW doesn't quote it
10:32
anywhere on the internet I couldn find it on the website I couldn find it on any specification or magazine sites so if you have the ground clearance for the BMW if you have one please go and measure it and put it in the comments
10:43
below but the Harley-Davidson is 211 millimeters the KTM is 30 millimeters
10:50
more so 242 millimeters so we'll give a point to the KTM I'm sure it's going to
10:55
be higher than the BMW anyway so that's four for the KTM two for BMW and one for
11:00
with the Harley Davidson. And then let's chat about the wheels quickly. We're not
11:05
going to give points here, but the Harley Davidson is exactly the same as the BMW
11:09
17 inch in the rear 19 inch in the front, whereas the KTM has 21 in the
11:14
front 18 in the rear, same as this XR of mine. Now the last specification I'm gonna
11:20
give a point for is the compression ratio. Now this is an arbitrary thing but I just
11:24
always feel the less stressed the engine is the better for reliability and for
11:29
peace of mind. The Harley-Davidson is close to the KTM. It's 13 to 1 for the Harley-Davidson
11:34
13.1 to 1 for the KTM. They both rev much higher. The power power at the BMW is slightly lower. 12.5 to 1
11:43
I'm gonna award them a point just because it's slightly lower. It's still very high. I mean this bike's I think 8 or 9 to 1. That's what I love. The Honda Africa Twin is 10 to 1
11:52
That's a big advantage for me personally, but yeah it's slightly bigger. So it's part of the rules
11:57
one point for BMW, so after the specs we're staying at one for Harley-Davidson
12:02
three for BMW, five for KTM, and something worth noting is, initially I didn't add the KTM
12:08
but when I saw the new one I wanted to add it, but without the KTM there's a couple of these points
12:12
that would have gone to the Harley instead of the BMW, so it would have been closer than it currently is at
12:18
So before we go to round two, please give this video a like so more people can find it
12:23
and let me know what you think is going to happen in the second round
12:28
So before we go to round two, what do I think about Harley-Davidson in general
12:33
I was also one of those people who dissed Harleys. I know a lot of you adventure riders
12:38
or a lot of bikers, looked down on other types of bikes and
12:43
I remember the first time I got on a Harley, it was just nice and I feel that about any bike
12:48
and the way that Harley Davidson supported Ewan and Charlie on the
12:53
long way up series with those electric bikes I mean you can say what you want
12:57
but they actually did that awesome trip and this company supported them and and
13:01
I hope it does well for them. There's a lot of people who complain and
13:07
make negative comments and joke but they don't actually do something themselves and that's what I love about
13:15
what Harley Davidson did and what you and Charlie did. I mean, I like any bikes. I had an old
13:22
Chinese delivery bike, a 200cc that was modeled on the old GN250 Suzukis. It's an objectively
13:29
terrible bike. If you look at the bike in the showroom, it was cheap, less than a thousand
13:33
dollars. It's a horrible little bike, but I toured through Africa for three months with it. My wife
13:38
on her own one as well and I fell in love with the bike it was so it doesn't
13:43
matter the image and what people say about it a bike is a bike and I think I
13:50
love what they did with this bike I love all the holidays there are a couple of ugly ones
13:55
and but anyway let's get back to round two so the first feature we're gonna
14:01
mention that not all the bikes have is variable valve timing now whether we
14:06
should award points for the KTM for not having it or 1 each for the BMW and the
14:11
Harley for having it, that's debatable, you can let me know what you think. But I'm
14:15
going to award points for Harley and for BMW for both having variable valve timing
14:19
The BMW was the first to come out in the adventure market with this variable valve timing. It's basically to give low end torque for slow off-road riding and
14:30
then when you go high up in the rev range for highway riding, it changes the
14:35
timing of the valves etc and it gives more power. The problem with the BMW one is it's
14:41
two stage so there's a surge at the bottom and a surge at the top it's not a
14:46
huge issue but with the Harley-Davidson they fixed that they've got a continuous
14:50
variable cam that works with hydraulics. I'm not entirely sure how it works
14:56
you can read up in the specs below in the press release but it basically
15:01
electronically changes the... continuously changes the timing, I think the crank through 40 degrees or something like that
15:11
But another cool thing about this is that when you stop or park the bike, when
15:16
you switch it off, it fully retards the intake valve and advances the exhaust
15:23
valve. So they are basically open for longer and that lowers the
15:27
compression and it makes it easier to start so it uses less power so that's quite nice. The problem with both the BMW and the Harley-Davidson especially if
15:36
you're thinking of touring around the world or through third world countries
15:40
Russia, Africa, wherever, if something goes wrong with this variable health timing I don't know that there's anyone that's going to be able to fix it so I
15:49
don like it but anyways we going to water points to BMW and for and Harley that puts them on 2 for Ali Harley four for BMW five for KTM Next a feature that many riders feel an expensive adventure bike at this level should have is cruise control
16:08
Now, the Harley-Davidson comes standard with cruise control, so does the KTM
16:14
but the BMW has that as an optional extra as part of the premium package which is an extra $30,850
16:22
so it's a pity that BMW has so many of these features as optional extras
16:26
and this is really where BMW lost a lot of points so cruise control one point for Harley, one point for KTM
16:33
Same thing with tire pressure monitor systems this is also quite a neat feature
16:38
it could really save your life or at least save the tire if you know that the tyre has deflated or has a puncture before it disintegrates or comes off the rim
16:47
So the Harley-Davidson has a tyre pressure monitoring system as standard, which warns you on the dash if there's a difference in tyre pressure that you have to check
16:56
And so does the KTM. The BMW again, that's an optional extra on the premium package
17:01
So a point again for Harley-Davidson. KTM, if they're inching closer, Harley-Davidson now at 5 points
17:07
BMW only at 4, and KTM at 7 points. So the BMW is behind the Harley now
17:12
Next feature, and this is again, now we're getting into features that is difficult to find and difficult to spec
17:18
Different markets are going to have different specs, but as far as I can see, the 1250 Special Pan America Harley has heated grips as standard
17:27
KTM, I don't see that anywhere on their website or that it's a standard feature
17:32
In BMW, it's an optional extra as part of the premium package, so a point for Harley-Davidson
17:37
now at 6 points, BMW at 4 and KTM still at 7 points
17:43
The next feature is adaptive headlights. So they all have LED headlights, but Harley-Davidson has additional 3 LEDs on each side, which
17:53
lights up as you turn the bike. So there's different degrees where it starts lighting up to illuminate the road to either side
18:02
KTM has a similar feature, and BMW does not. part of the optional extra package so that's one point for Harley-Davidson one point for KTM zero for
18:11
BMW but I have to mention that Harley-Davidson again was clever here instead of lighting it up
18:17
in phases it is a continuous increase in the current so the lights smoothly goes brighter
18:26
as you turn the bike so that's quite nice the only problem with this is once I rode a Harley-Davidson
18:31
It's one of the most expensive, those touring ones with all the fairings and panniers and stuff
18:36
We rode it to a wedding about 400 kilometers away. And as I came back, a rock hit the headlight and it was smashed
18:44
Luckily, it wasn't my bike. It was Harley Davidson's bike. But imagine if that happens to a headlight like this
18:49
That's going to be a super expensive repair. So I don't like it, but it's a feature, so it's a point for KTM and Harley
18:56
so the last feature is a tubeless rims so BMW comes out with those tubeless rims
19:06
laced tubeless spoked rims so does KTM their features not as good as BMW's I've heard
19:14
I don't know the details but Harley-Davidson does not have those tubeless rims it's an optional
19:19
extra for $500 I think it's worth it and this is where the spokes goes through the rims on the
19:25
edges outside of the tire bead so it can't leak. But that's a nice feature and
19:31
it's only $500 so I would think worth it but it doesn't come as standard so to be
19:36
fair that's a point to BMW and KTM. So at the end we're standing at five points
19:42
for the BMW, the king of the adventure bikes, seven points for Harley Davidson
19:47
mostly because most of the features are standard and not optional extras and
19:52
that makes the BMW $3850 more expensive quite a lot more expensive to have all those features so it's fair to award seven points to Harley Davidson
20:02
KTM right at the top It's cheapest bike Most of the features are standard. It's more powerful
20:10
weighs less So at eight points only slightly above so it's clear when the KTM is the best bike
20:16
A lot of you and especially the KTM riders will say this is no surprise
20:20
the KTN is definitely the better bike and I'm pretty sure it is the most fun bike to ride
20:25
Is this the is that the bike I would buy if I had $20,000 to spend on a bike
20:31
Probably not. I think I'll probably buy the BMW GS Adventure and I don't know why I just like the bike
20:37
It's just it just does everything well and that's probably the bike I would want to take around the
20:43
world if I had to choose one of these three but if I could choose any bike I'd probably take this
20:47
old X-SARC because I already have it. And then the Harley-Davidson, would I ever consider it
20:54
I don't think so, but I am very glad that they made the bike. I really hope it does well for
21:00
Harley-Davidson and that it does save the company and that they can continue to make awesome bikes
21:06
and bring us new models like this one, new surprise. So please let me know what you think
21:12
I'd love to hear from you and I'll see you next week
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